r/RingsofPower 29d ago All-Seeing Upvote

Previews of The Fall of Numemor now available, showing all of Tolkien's second age writings arranged together into a single narrative

132 Upvotes

The Fall of Númenor: and Other Tales from the Second Age of Middle-earth, edited by Brian Sibley, now has some content previews released.

For anyone not in the loop, this book brings together all of Tolkien's available writing about the second age into a single volume. The book seems to be designed such that knowledge of The Silmarillion is not required and should probably be a good fit for anyone who watched the Amazon show and wants to read the book's version of the events.

Tolkien notably did not write a novel of the second age, but he wrote various bits here and there, and Brian Sibley has here edited them all into a single narrative. All editorial changes are clearly marked, down to citing which source every paragraph comes from and to marking any words added for flow with brackets.

The book is illustrated by Alan Lee. It releases November 10th in the UK and November 15th in the US.

The offical content preview shows the first couple of chapters (skipping introductions and footnotes). Alan Lee's illustrations can be seen as well.

https://preview.aer.io/The_Fall_of_Nmenor-NDgyNzgz

And this other content preview shows the opening matter and introductions

https://www.chapters.indigo.ca/en-ca/books/the-fall-of-n%C3%BAmenor-and/9780008537838-item.html


r/RingsofPower 16h ago

News Joseph Mawle/Adar is leaving the show.

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460 Upvotes

r/RingsofPower 15h ago

News Adar recast after Joseph Mawle left the show. Role is gonna be portrayed by Sam Hazeldine now. (Not a huge fan, JM was perfect)

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21 Upvotes

r/RingsofPower 1d ago

News ‘Lord Of The Rings’ star Bernard Hill hits out at ‘The Rings Of Power’: “It’s a money-making venture”

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171 Upvotes

r/RingsofPower 1d ago

Discussion One story to unite them all.

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291 Upvotes

r/RingsofPower 17h ago

Meme don't lie to yourselves.

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0 Upvotes

r/RingsofPower 20h ago

News The beginning of the END ! BREAKING NEWS! ACTOR LEAVES RINGS OF POWER

0 Upvotes

ADAR ACTOR LEAVES THE SHOW FOR SEASON 2 : https://youtu.be/a4pXn4XXQWY


r/RingsofPower 3d ago

Theory Galadriel and Gil-Galad's Secret Chat (Episode 1 Spoiler)

57 Upvotes

Apologies if this has been brought up before, but in episode 1 there is an interesting moment between Galadriel and Gil-Galad during the ceremony where she is sent back to Valinor. The way they are looking at each other mimics the way that Galadriel and characters from the Lord of the Rings trilogy would look at each other when she had secret chats with them via telepathy. Does anyone else agree? What could they have been talking about? I feel like they were arguing. I wonder if this will ever be brought back up and their conversation revealed.


r/RingsofPower 3d ago

Discussion Seems Like LotR New Owners Haven't The Foggiest What to Do With It

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56 Upvotes

r/RingsofPower 4d ago

Question Ep 5 continuity

3 Upvotes

So I haven't ever paid attention to Reddit before now. This post is probably in the wrong place. Oh well. If answered elsewhere forgive me.

What the hell happened in Ep. 5 where Galadriel was being exiled. She was on the ship being sent away, then boom, she wasn't. She was with Miriel and everything had changed.

Where is the transition? Was their a scene cut. Was the continuity editor drunk or stoned?


r/RingsofPower 7d ago

Meme Whenever I go to a new place I always meet the local Waldreg

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423 Upvotes

r/RingsofPower 6d ago

Discussion Rings of Power vs. Peter Jackson's Fellowship of the Ring

30 Upvotes

TLDR: Watch/rewatch Peter Jackson’s Fellowship of the Ring.

Preface: First read LotR (as well as The Hobbit) in high school 50 odd years ago. Loved it. Reread it to the point of the covers falling off the paperbacks. Bought the hardcover boxset. Moved on to other things. More or less gave up on ever seeing a decent movie version of any of it after Ralph Bakshi’s animated version (frankly, my imagination produced better versions of most of the fantasy/sci-fi books than the movies of the time). Then came PJ’s film. I’ve watched it too many times to count. Bought the films on DVD and then Blu-ray (one of the sets included the Argonath bookends) and digital copies from Apple. I don’t consider myself a Tolkien scholar; I never made it through The Silmarillion. Which is to say, I loved his storytelling; his ‘histories,’ not so much. Finally, I love movies and rewatch favorites (e.g., The Matrix 50+ times; Avatar 13 times in the cinema, nevermind Blu-ray and streaming).

So, to the topic at hand: Amazon’s The Rings of Power. I’ve streamed the 8 episodes 4 times. First time through I watched episodes 1&2, followed by 3 a week later before deciding to wait for all the episodes to drop before continuing. I definitely liked it better the second time through, but that was probably the high point. It’s a reasonably enjoyable story, if not true to Tolkien. However, it just comes off as cheap.

As far as characters go, only the Dwarves and (can’t believe I’m saying this) the Harfoots are interesting, likable and worth following (and the Harfoots could really have been cut completely without harming the rest of the story). The elves are the worst. I know Morfydd has fans from previous films, but I’d never seen her before this. That said, watch the first hour or so of PJ’s FotR. Liv Tyler (whom I also had never seen in a film before) makes a better elfin princess than Morfydd does in the entire 8 episodes of RoP. Nevermind Cate Blanchett. Morfydd should sue the cameraman who filmed her gallop with Elendil … her smile looks more like a grimace and flared nostrils remind me of nothing so much as a rat. Sorry Morfydd. Ismael Cruz Cordova (Arondir) is the exception here.

Costumes. Where do the elves shop for clothes? Bed, Bathrobes and Beyond’s mall outlet store? I know they are ‘fading,’ but never thought of it as shrinking to the point where everything they wear is 3 sizes too big.

Camera work. I don’t know if this is the director’s fault or the camera crew, but they seem to have no idea how to frame a shot, especially closeups. Watch PJ’s ForR.

Ideas/story. As I said, I’m no Tolkien scholar, so I’ll leave that up to others. But the direct rips from PJ are insulting. Compare any of the horse work done (especially the slo-mo). The Orcs/Uruks. The battle scenes (the Uruk-hai at the end of FotR vs. the battle sequence in ep. 6 of RoP, not the massive battles of the last two PJ films).

The PJ films are not perfect by any means, and I think the later two have more problems than the first, but the overall quality of every aspect of his films is so far above RoP that I’m amazed going back and watching his films made 20 years earlier. With older technology (some of which he had to invent) and less money.


r/RingsofPower 7d ago

Meme I was not expecting that much blood. But still loved the show

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250 Upvotes

r/RingsofPower 7d ago Silver

Discussion Galadriel and Tolkien's recurring theme of silver vs. gold (long graph)

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180 Upvotes

r/RingsofPower 7d ago

Fanart I made my own hobbit costume.

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222 Upvotes

r/RingsofPower 8d ago

Meme Me whenever Elendil appears on screen:

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444 Upvotes

r/RingsofPower 8d ago Silver Wholesome

Discussion The Subreddits of Power: Tracking the growth and activity of Tolkien related subs in 2022

79 Upvotes

Three subs for the show-watchers discussing the show (the three main RoP subs: r/LOTR_on_Prime, r/RingsofPower, r/Rings_Of_Power),

Seven for the Tolkien-fans in their subs of Reddit (this also includes the four biggest/most active Tolkien related subs: r/lotr, r/tolkienfans, r/lotrmemes, r/lordoftherings),

Nine for bored folks doomed to meme (this also includes the two meme subs for the show: r/MemesOfPower & r/HarFEET),

One for the Yaoi enjoyers with their Yaoi minds

In the Land of r/Angbang where Morgoth and Sauron lie.

---------

In this post I will analyze the growth of these subs since the beginning of the year and throughout Season 1 of the RoP show, and how their activity levels changed and compared to each other in the lead-up to, during, and after Season 1.

There isn't really a tl;dr because this is simply a collection of descriptive data and I'm not trying to make a central argument about anything. If you like data, you might enjoy reading through this.

Section index:

Brief descriptions of the 9 subs

A few notes about the data

  1. Subs' subs (Figures 1-4)
  2. Comments per day (Figures 5-7)
  3. Posts per day (Figures 8-10)
  4. Comments per day per 1,000 subscribers (Figure 11)
  5. Posts per day per 1,000 subscribers (Figure 12)
  6. Average number of comments per post (Figure 13)
  7. A tale of two meme subs (Figures 14 & 15)

Brief descriptions of the 9 subs (skip if you already know these subs):

  1. r/LOTR_on_Prime is the main RoP sub, but it doesn't allow meme posts.
  2. r/RingsofPower is an alternative RoP sub, and started as a place for people from r/tolkienfans to talk about the show. Because it was created for book fans, all book spoilers are automatically allowed (episode spoilers still required labels).
  3. r/Rings_Of_Power is another alternative RoP sub.
  4. r/lotr is the main generic LotR/Tolkien sub. No memes allowed.
  5. r/lordoftherings is an alternative generic LotR/Tolkien sub.
  6. r/tolkienfans is the main book reader sub. Text posts only, and no discussions of adaptations are allowed there.
  7. r/lotrmemes is the main LotR meme Grond sub. They banned RoP memes between late February and late August.
  8. r/MemesOfPower is a RoP meme sub created in February.
  9. r/HarFEET is another RoP meme sub, created in September.

For more data analysis on the first 5 subs on this list and how their attitudes towards the show changed over time, see my other post: [End-of-season analysis] Comparing Season 1 ratings across subreddits and other platforms

In this post I will focus on the first 7 subs with an emphasis on the first 3 show subs. I will do a bit of comparison of the last two meme subs at the end.

A few notes about the data (feel free to skip):

  1. Data come from https://subredditstats.com/.
  2. Some of the smaller subs had missing values on some of the days, so I imputed the values using nearby data.
  3. Some of the data between 9/23-9/25 were faulty, so I imputed the values using nearby data.
  4. To make the lines look less jagged or jumpy and to ensure readability, I smoothed most of the data using 5-day moving averages.
  5. Some of the graphs used log scales while others used linear scales.
  6. There are occasionally 0 or negative values, and they can't be properly shown on log scales, so a few of the lines on the graphs may appear "broken".

Main text starts below. It sometimes takes a minute for all graphs to load.

1. Subs' subs

First we'll look at how various subreddits' subscriber counts have grown since the beginning of the year.

https://preview.redd.it/c2ss0yruvq1a1.png?width=1436&format=png&auto=webp&s=b48ec1b48e99f4bd5e3fef46070d3cad8bea6826

https://preview.redd.it/go61b2ivvq1a1.png?width=1432&format=png&auto=webp&s=4669567ef7fb9d5972e791adbc0f56c9de9ae133

Figure 1 shows the subscriber growth curves of each of the seven subs (log scale), and Figure 2 shows the same curves but as percentages of their current values.

Between Jan 1 and Nov 10, r/lotr grew by about 25%, r/lordoftherings and r/lotrmemes by 30-35%, r/tolkienfans by 40-45%, r/LOTR_on_Prime by ~500%, r/RingsofPower by ~ 2000% (since Mar 1), and r/Rings_Of_Power by ~900% (since Mar 1).

In terms of the show's boosting effect on the subs' growth, the three show subs experienced exponential growth during Season 1, while r/lotr, r/lordoftherings, and r/tolkienfans saw more modest but still quite noticeable growths. r/lotrmemes was the only one that didn't benefit that much from the show.

Figure 3 shows the rate of growth (daily new subscribers divided by total subscribers) between Jan and November. Figure 4 zooms in on the period between July and Nov:

https://preview.redd.it/bo61rwqwvq1a1.png?width=1294&format=png&auto=webp&s=c710022b6a6aaa0aeb4d38b50a1fa5acae393fcc

https://preview.redd.it/n1l6bifxvq1a1.png?width=1284&format=png&auto=webp&s=25482702b20a071f70e0a290cd9aa3fd2d9a2bac

For every sub except r/lotrmemes, there were noticeable jumps following the Superbowl teaser in mid February, the official SDCC trailer in late July, and the season premiere in early September. In the three show subs, and to some extent r/lotr as well, there was also accelerated growth coinciding with major releases of photos, articles, or teasers in the lead-up to the season.

Now let's zoom in on the two months before and after the premiere episodes. There was explosive growth during the week of the premiere. The growth rate of the two smaller show subs increased by about 30-40 folds compared to the baselines in the previous months; it also increased by about 20 folds in r/LOTR_on_Prime, 8 folds in r/lotr, 6 folds in r/lordoftherings, and 5 folds in r/tolkienfans (despite their ban on any adaptation discussion). So the show seems to be a huge boost for almost all Tolkien related subs. One notable exception is r/lotrmemes, which only got a relatively mild boost.

The growth rates of most subs came back down after the premiere, but still remained heightened (3-8 times higher) compared to pre-season baselines, and fairly steady throughout the rest of the season.

The trends after the finale are actually quite interesting. The growth of r/RingsofPower and r/Rings_Of_Power quickly slowed down. r/RingsofPower is now back to its growth level during the summer, and r/Rings_Of_Power basically completely stalled and only grew by 0.4% in the last two weeks. In contrast, r/LOTR_on_Prime's growth since the finale has remained relatively robust, and it's still growing about 3 times faster compared to its level just before the premiere. The same goes for r/lotr and r/tolkienfans as the show seems to be a long-lasting boost on their subscriber growth. r/lordoftherings's growth is basically back to its pre-season levels, and r/lotrmemes's line has been pretty flat the whole time.

2. Comments per day

Now let's move on to the daily number of comments made on each sub.

https://preview.redd.it/mp9hk7pyvq1a1.png?width=1238&format=png&auto=webp&s=60a9cab4b9142edb648656a462ce9d6d777f9a5c

Similar to the trends of subscribers, there was a huge jump following the Superbowl teaser (except in r/tolkienfans). Then it gradually ramped up, especially in the three show subs, during the two months leading up to the premiere.

Let's zoom in on the trends since July. Figure 6 uses the linear scale, and is great for seeing the true scales, and Figure 7 uses the log scale, which is good for comparing across the subs (especially the smaller ones):

https://preview.redd.it/aeeythyzvq1a1.png?width=1238&format=png&auto=webp&s=f84596e3669825cbbed0a9c2681b671039b6b8cc

https://preview.redd.it/66estgi0wq1a1.png?width=1238&format=png&auto=webp&s=7a3be472005e3d1e24900ee292f0db3de5bb71ed

During the premiere week, the number of comments increased by about 15 folds on r/RingsofPower, 8 folds on r/LOTR_on_Prime and r/lotr, about 5 folds on r/Rings_Of_Power and r/lordoftherings, 4 folds on r/lotrmemes, and about 50% on r/tolkienfans.

Over the course of the season, the trends in the three show subs was slightly going down between the premiere and Ep 4, but rebounded after Ep 5 and 6 and cruised to new highs following the finale. In contrast, the lines of the two generic subs and r/lotrmemes were generally trending down or remained relatively flat. This might be seen as an indicator that people were increasingly going to the show subs to discuss the show as the season went on. The line is pretty flat in r/tolkienfans, but it's still remarkable that they had about 50%-100% more comments compared to their normal baseline even when they completely banned discussion of the show.

Post-finale, the numbers dropped at similar rates in most subs. One month after the finale, the daily number of comments on r/LOTR_on_Prime, r/lotr, r/lordoftherings are almost back to their pre-season levels, while the numbers are still slightly above their summer baselines on the two smaller show subs. The lines for r/tolkienfans and r/lotrmemes continued to remain relatively flat. r/tolkienfans did get a decent boost towards the end of October due to the upcoming (edited) book about the Second Age.

3. Posts per day

The patterns and trends of daily number of posts track those of comments pretty closely, so I won't repeat them here. The only notable difference is that r/RingsofPower and r/Rings_Of_Power bascially switched places. r/RingsofPower consistently had more comments than r/Rings_Of_Power, but the graphs below we see that r/Rings_Of_Power started to have more posts than r/RingsofPower since around Ep 4. Part of the reason was that r/RingsofPower changed their rules around that time and banned all picture and video based posts in the three days following each new episode. This means that the sub was basically a text only sub (just like r/tolkienfans, which share some of the same mods with them) from Friday to Sunday, and this almost cut their daily number of posts in half (but apparently not their number of comments), although it's hard to know precisely how many more posts could have been posted without the rule change. See Figure 13 in Section 6 for a related discussion on this.

https://preview.redd.it/y2v3iw2huq1a1.png?width=1284&format=png&auto=webp&s=d277c6ce9f6d397613e4a0d2c099db70e5fbc0cf

https://preview.redd.it/2zw9gn0iuq1a1.png?width=1280&format=png&auto=webp&s=98fc4f4269be18f9db5c22ffc8cc684c267feeb6

https://preview.redd.it/ktwfm5uiuq1a1.png?width=1282&format=png&auto=webp&s=9f664c9f5c3fd39cf4499719906acd77b314b7cc

BTW, did you see r/lotrmemes's unusual bump around Aug 10? That was their week-long "Grond-mania" (although it does feel like it's more and more the norm instead of the exception these days). I did a data analysis of the effects of that "Week of Grond" on that sub's growth: Did Grond ruin the sub? A data analysis of the effects of Grond memes. They've been having a "civil war" surrounding Grond in the last two days, so I might do another analysis soon if the whole thing produces some interesting data.

4. Comments per day per 1,000 subscribers

This is an indicator of how active or talkative subscribers of a sub are on average. In general, smaller and newer subs tend to have more active subscribers:

https://preview.redd.it/2cxabflkuq1a1.png?width=1278&format=png&auto=webp&s=4ce3d3bd77d0026ea6b2c45c47c1a791c4128e64

Between March and June, the gaps between subs were relatively small. People on the 3 show subs were generally the most talkative. They were followed by r/tolkienfans (who were probably enthusiastically debating about the lore), and r/lotrmemes (although 30% of their comments were probably from the bots?). r/lotr is close behind, and r/lordoftherings usually lagged behind, but not by that much.

Then as the marketing for the show started to accelerate in June, the 3 show subs pulled away from the rest, with r/Rings_Of_Power establishing a pretty consistent lead. The two generic LotR subs also caught up with r/tolkienfans and r/lotrmemes.

Then when the show premiered, r/Rings_Of_Power got a ~300% boost, r/RingsofPower got an ~800% boost, r/LOTR_on_Prime got 300-400%, r/lotr and r/lordoftherings ~400%, r/lotrmemes ~200%, and r/tolkienfans 50-100%.

Then the numbers dropped by about 50% across all subs between the premiere and EP 4, and then slowly recovered a bit after EP 5 (except on r/lotr where it remained rather flat).

Post-finale, most of the numbers gradually returned to their summer levels after about 2-3 weeks.

5. Posts per day per 1,000 subscribers

Again, fairly similar to the trends regarding the comments. And again, you can see the drop in r/RingsofPower after EP 4 when they changed the rules and made Fri-Sun text post only.

r/Rings_Of_Power's lead is even bigger here than in the previous graph. Subscribers there, on average, seem really enthusiastic about making posts.

https://preview.redd.it/164ya4nluq1a1.png?width=1276&format=png&auto=webp&s=d8504d48561dee6ded67887f5b044eb2c2821101

6. Average number of comments per post

One way to interpret this number is that it's a measure of how heated the discussions are on a sub because it's hard to have a 50+ rounds back-and-forth in the comments when the people all basically agree with each other. It's usually a sign that people are passionately arguing about things.

https://preview.redd.it/km12d9anuq1a1.png?width=1276&format=png&auto=webp&s=b5a6a4a2e690ef6362869869cacb2f93d0d1d011

Let's start with the elephants on the graph: the three show subs were taking turns leading the pack in terms of how heated the discussions in the comments were. Between May and July, r/LOTR_on_Prime had big comment-to-post ratios. I think it was because that there were some relatively minor releases of promotion materials. But because 1) the other two show subs were basically still in hiatus, and 2) these releases were few and far in between, the discussions and speculations were concentrated into just a few posts on one sub, producing those big spikes.

Then between late July and late August, r/Rings_Of_Power took over because (at least from what I saw) there were a lot of debates surrounding controversial topics that were banned in some of the other subs.

Finally, it was r/RingsofPower's time to shine. Following their mid-season rule change, their discussions are compressed into fewer posts, and the text-only format might also have helped spark heated debates like in r/tolkienfans.

Outside of the three show subs, throughout much of the year, r/tolkienfans tends to have the most comments per post, which makes sense since they do like to discuss/debate about the lores and they take pride in that; r/lotr and r/lotrmemes are very similar, although keep in mind that some of the comments in r/lotrmemes are made by the bots; r/lordoftherings tends to have the least amount of discussions in the comments. Then during the summer, r/lordoftherings caught up with the rest for reasons somewhat similar to r/Rings_Of_Power (the two subs share some of their mods and policies).

As of Nov 10, most subs (except r/RingsofPower) are basically at the same level. It's quite remarkable given how different these subs are.

7. A tale of two meme subs

Besides the 7 main subs analyzed above, there are two smaller RoP meme subs, and they seem to have an interesting rivalry going on:

https://preview.redd.it/ddi2vjaouq1a1.png?width=1286&format=png&auto=webp&s=c479522596d99285ff46211a5e3760c090ff785a

r/MemesOfPower was created shortly after the Superbowl teaser, and r/HarFEET was created after the season had started as an alternative to r/MemesOfPower. The latter almost caught up with the former in about 6 weeks, and the two have been locked in a close "race" ever since. We'll see if r/HarFEET will catch up to r/MemesOfPower by Season 2.

The newcomer r/HarFEET is quite a bit more active (having about twice the number of daily posts and comments) than r/MemesOfPower despite its smaller size:

https://preview.redd.it/ulped9apuq1a1.png?width=1286&format=png&auto=webp&s=1d0880b1a3275cb99030b9ff1c32d268005acc69

And that's a wrap! There isn't really a conclusion or tl;dr for this post except that it has certainly been an exciting and interesting year for the Tolkien subs. Thanks for reading and I hope you enjoyed these data.

For more data analyses about the Tolkien subs or RoP, check out my other posts:

  1. [End-of-season analysis] Comparing Season 1 ratings across subreddits and other platforms
  2. One thumbnail to bait them all: Data analyses of RoP related clickbait channels on YouTube
  3. Comparing ratings of Episode 8 (season finale) across subreddits and IMDb
  4. Comparing post type composition and preference across subs
  5. Comparing the frequency of sex, violence, and gore in RoP and HotD
  6. Results of the RoP soundtrack survey (pre-season): ratings and favorites
  7. Did Grond ruin the sub? A data analysis of the effects of Grond memes
  8. How Durin imagines Elrond spends his time

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Unrelated, but if you like to share and discuss Tolkien related theories, whether they're about the show or about the movies or books, whether they're serious ones or crackpot theories or just for fun, you can check out the new sub I made: r/TolkienTheories. It's just getting started, but hopefully it'll grow into a community over time.


r/RingsofPower 8d ago

John Garth on The Fall of Numenor and Rings of Power

Thumbnail theguardian.com
38 Upvotes

r/RingsofPower 9d ago

Meme The evolution of Numenorean ships

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244 Upvotes

r/RingsofPower 10d ago

Newest Episode Spoilers If u know u know

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296 Upvotes

r/RingsofPower 8d ago

Newest Episode Spoilers The Culture of the Harfoots in the show 'The Rings of Power'

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0 Upvotes

r/RingsofPower 10d ago

Discussion An Actual Paragraph from the Silmarillion

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497 Upvotes

r/RingsofPower 11d ago

Discussion He might not be the hero the Middle Earth wants but at least he punched Sauron in the face

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926 Upvotes

r/RingsofPower 10d ago

Discussion An actual paragraph from the Lord of the Rings

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61 Upvotes

r/RingsofPower 10d ago

Question Why was Halbrand looking for work in Númenor…?

69 Upvotes

…if he is Sauron


r/RingsofPower 9d ago

Discussion Isildur's character.?

1 Upvotes

So just a thought about Isildur in the show. He seems such a a**hole with the scenes on the ship and stuff that it totally makes sense that he didn't cast the One ring into the fire. Also since we know he (must have) survived the eruption why wouldn't they give us a hint about it?