r/WitchesVsPatriarchy Oct 02 '22 Wholesome 1 Heartwarming 1 Silver 1 Gold 1 Helpful 1

Sex work is a legitimate profession and should be recognised as it. Discussion

The illegal status of sex work, in a lot of countries, endanger sex workers.

I believe that it is meant to tackle human trafficking as it gives grounds to arrest, question and thoroughly interview the professional in order to assess the nature of their choice but in doing so, it punishes and risk willing and legitimate workers.

The first picture that comes to mind when speaking about sex work are, irrelevant of gender, folks on sidewalks selling their services. Sex work isn’t just that. It can be emotional support, a human contact. A presence and ear. Someone satisfying emotional and physical needs.

They should be protected. There should be regulations, rules and laws framing and codify this profession. They should have the right to a safe working environment, tests, space rather than being punished and blamed.

I am outraged at the way sex workers are treated when they service society. The fact that the customer always walk free or with a fine and the professional having their record tarnished.

1.2k Upvotes

213

u/BetterBiscuits Oct 02 '22

It really blows my mind that it’s perfectly legal for a person to pay two people to fuck on camera, but it’s illegal to get paid directly by the person you’re fucking.

138

u/magical_elf Oct 02 '22

It's allll about who can make money out of it.

Women making good money for themselves? Immoral. Wrong.

Male porn directors/producers making money from women? Excellent business practice.

15

u/dust4ngel Oct 02 '22

i can’t help but notice that most women are born with enormous amounts of natural human capital, and men have made it illegal for them to monetize it.

-6

u/[deleted] Oct 02 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

9

u/magical_elf Oct 02 '22

Many of them do, but of the profits made by the porn industry, only a tiny proportion goes to the performers.

Basically, if there's a way for rich men to get richer, things tend to be legalised

1

u/suzanne2961 Oct 02 '22

There are also a lot of women who direct and produce porn…

9

u/aflyfacingwinter Oct 02 '22

Totally true but any of the free sites 100% engage in trafficking, a lot of the victims have spoken on this subject. So pay for it from reputable sources! A lot of the time that is women which is awesome

1

u/suzanne2961 Oct 02 '22

Absolutely!

12

u/in_the_sheyd Oct 02 '22 edited Oct 02 '22

That would really blow my mind, too, except that you're completely wrong. It might be legal to purchase and possess pornography but in most jurisdictions actually making it or being an accessory to making it is still criminalized. Literally, in most cities being a "brothel owner" is super illegal which means if you're a cam girl and your landlord finds out that you're working from home they will evict you because that is what they legally have to do in order to protect themselves.

This is a huge problem in the industry. Literally if you're a cam girl or you're making indie porn or anything like that you always run the risk of some abusive prick doxxing you and threatening to out you to your landlord because they know it'll get you evicted and maybe you'll give them shit to shut them up. That or they just want to hurt you for funsies.

Like this just isn't true on any level. Yes, there are places you can legally make porn but the vast majority of sex workers who actually do cam work don't live or work in those places. I wish I had a nickel for every time I've had to have this conversation with people who are getting into this work...

EDIT: I forgot to even mention the fact that criminalization means that mainstream payment processors refuse to do business with sex workers which means that you need to do business with payment processors who specialize in the sex industry and they take an absolutely disgusting cut. It's been a few years since I've had my hand in this industry but I remember between the payment processor and the platform you might take home 10 cents for every dollar the clients pay, including tips, and that's pre-tax.

19

u/_jamesbaxter Resting Witch Face Oct 02 '22

I think if you actually talk to SWers there is a strong argument for decriminalization as opposed to legalization.

This PDF has very comprehensive information regarding the issue. Pages 6-8 talk about the differences between legalization, decriminalization, and other models.

3

u/Clean_Link_Bot Oct 02 '22

beep boop! the linked website is: https://www.nswp.org/sites/default/files/sg_to_decriminalisation_prf05.pdf

Page is safe to access (Google Safe Browsing)


###### I am a friendly bot. I show the URL of linked pages and check them so that mobile users know what they click on!

3

u/_jamesbaxter Resting Witch Face Oct 02 '22

Good bot!

121

u/Euphoriapleas Oct 02 '22

https://youtu.be/-gd8yUptg0Q

John Oliver did a good episode on sex work. It is pretty disgusting how we claim it's all to stop trafficking, yet the only people that get the consequences are the sex workers and trafficked.

38

u/SadCum69 Oct 02 '22

Thank you ! Will watch !

Agree. It’s a snail biting it’s own tail. Sex workers do not seek help, do not report abuse because of the illegality of their profession and traffickers thrive because it is not regulated and they have no duty of due diligence.

Watched a really interesting documentary about sex workers in Switzerland, where it is legal, and the care, protection, safety and recognition of the trade is actually beneficial for both the state and the professional

12

u/GenericWoman12345 Oct 02 '22

What's the documentary?

4

u/Euphoriapleas Oct 02 '22

It's just an episode of John Oliver talking about sex work and our (America's) poor handling of the situation.

If you're unfamiliar with John Oliver, he has an hbo show. I really appreciate him and his ability to present leftist ideas in a clear and understandably manner.

75

u/in_the_sheyd Oct 02 '22

It also harms victims of sex trafficking by exposing victims to state violence, by saddling survivors with criminal records, and by making victims more dependent on their pimps for protection by making everything involved with the sex trade much more dangerous. I'm including the so-called "Nordic model" of criminalization in this analysis, by the way.

It's really fucked up because the people who really need to be listened to--who know a thing or two about surviving pimps and this kind of rape--are being put into the position of having to bare trauma for public consumption and to relive that in order to be heard. It has been said so many times already but nobody wants to listen to sex workers. They want an "innocent" victim that they can sympathize with without having to check their misogyny so they tokenize survivors' voices when they say things they want to hear and ignore us when they don't.

I don't know... I'm going to be honest it hurts to see a lot of performative allyship from feminists who have not had to experience this system of violence first hand. It honestly stings when people glorify this industry. It's ugly but it is what it is and for some people it's the best choice and for some people it's the only choice and that should be respected. Sorry if that's harsh but it is what it is.

Again, to circle back to "listen to sex workers" nobody who has actually been in the industry wants legalization. Legalization will not protect sex slaves because regulation will always leave people in the margins. The demand is, and always has been, decriminalization.

Listen.

13

u/Away_Veterinarian957 Oct 02 '22

Hi sorry if this is putting more of a burden on you, but I wanted a little clarification and expansion on some of your other points if that is alright.. you say legalization doesn't protect folks because it will leave people in the margins. I guess I am wondering first off if you can clarify what you mean when you say that and then secondly what actions you would be calling for or how you would think to go about making positive changes for folks that would be in those margins. Please share so we can listen and elevate your thoughts to others thank you

24

u/in_the_sheyd Oct 02 '22

Decriminalize all aspects of sex work, including buying sex and including providing services to sex workers for money. That last bit is incredibly important because there is no such thing as a fully independent sex worker and the more independent you are the more dangerous the trade becomes. You need people who will give you a safe space to actually fuck and you need people who can help connect you to clients and who can help you screen them. Very often civilians will press for laws that "only" criminalize "pimping" without realizing that free sex workers almost always "pimp" by providing services for each other or they rely on "pimps" like hoteliers.

When you legalize something you create a legal avenue for practicing sex work but that legal avenue will necessarily have boundaries. Even if the boundaries are "obviously" necessary there will be actual trafficking victims who are outside it. The only thing that legalization does is allow capitalists to lock down the industry and they are their own type of abusive.

5

u/fucking___why Oct 02 '22

In my country sex work is decriminalised but you can’t do sex work as an immigrant on a work visa to prevent sex trafficking. Works pretty well I think.

3

u/Ashamed_Membership Oct 02 '22

Which country is that?

3

u/fucking___why Oct 02 '22

New Zealand

12

u/angelofjag Oct 02 '22

Australian ex-sex worker here (18 years in the industry)

Thank you

We mostly have good laws around sex working in Oz. I have worked in other countries with varying degrees of legality (or illegality in most places), and I am horrified at how some countries treat people who find themselves in the sex industry

Sex work is work

11

u/DPVaughan Oct 02 '22

What do you think of the Australian and New Zealand models?

I feel like the New Zealand model is much better (especially because the Australian system is a hodge-podge of different rules because of the federal nature of the country), but an Australian I'm glad we don't have prostitutes rounded up and arrested to meet police quotas like they are in, um, some countries.

6

u/NixyPix Oct 02 '22

Agree. Having moved to Aus from overseas, I think it’s a better system but it doesn’t go the full way.

5

u/DPVaughan Oct 02 '22

I think the kiwis researched different models (like the Nordic and the Nevada ones) and aimed to address the concerns of those existing models.

Edit: You know, how government policy should be done.

14

u/akotlya1 Oct 02 '22 Bravo!

As long as we are compelled to work under pain of exposure, starvation, and lack of medical care no work can ever be truly voluntary. I feel like it colors sex work in a different light than other kinds of work - while other work can be understood as wage slavery, sex work becomes wage sex-slavery. Even so, the solution is not to ban it but create the conditions where the workers can own their own means of production with all the legal and social protections other professions enjoy - at a minimum.

9

u/tres_liebres Oct 02 '22 edited Oct 02 '22

I think the entire debate is far more complicated than 100% abolitionism or 100% regulationism. The truth is that both models have failed in key areas when it comes to protecting both victims of trafficking/exploitation and sex workers. As an example, my city changed its legislation to be fully abolitionist (as a late response to years of sexual exploitation) and now even a sex worker’s roommate or a friend/family who aids them in any way can be charged with pimping. To me that is absolute insanity. OTOH, my friend lives in a state where sex work of all kinds is fully legal, but overtime it turned into a very lax regulation that opened the door for women, girls and boys to be traficked from other states/countries.

Bottom line is that blind spots exist in both positions and the more we refuse to acknowledge some hard facts they will continue to exist. I think some of the things that have to be acknowledged before sitting down to discuss policies are: 1) some sex workers choose it, and do not feel particularly victimised or debased by what their career of choice requires them to do/deal with; 2) some sex workers actually prefer it to any other career choice they could have; 3) some sex workers are coerced by their situation into it, and would have a different job should they have the opportunity; 4) exploitation and abuse can happen even in a context where sex work is legal or decriminalised, even to people who freely choose to practice sex work; 4’) trafficking victims can exist in places where sex work is legal/decriminalized; 5) human trafficking is one of the biggest crime industries in the world, and its victims cannot be considered outliers; 6) sex cannot be severed from power dynamics, nor can its consumption (not all consumers, but yes some consumers).

Also, public policy cannot be adopted from one country to another (or worse, from a theoretical POV to practice) without mediating the differences between them, and without addressing the shortcomings of those original policies.

3

u/Euphoriapleas Oct 02 '22

Just ignoring sex work isn't the answer we're advocating for either. There is an answer between criminalizing and ignoring, and right now the only people actually criminalized is the sex worker. Regulation and a non coercive economy would massively help everyone in sex work.

Non coercive economy is a little harder to achieve, but did you know we banned a safe site for sex workers and pushed them back to the streets or significantly less safe sites?

The idea we cannot make things safer for sex workers and the trafficked is absurd and often something that helps one will help the other. Helping sex workers, adding options and protections is helping the trafficked people more than any of what we're doing now.

With how we often have consequences for the sex workers rather than traffickers, there is little incentive for sex workers and trafficked people to come forward when they're often the ones locked up.

https://youtu.be/-gd8yUptg0Q (John Oliver segment on sex work)

4

u/tres_liebres Oct 02 '22 edited Oct 02 '22

I fear I have made a crappy work of expressing what I think if you think I am proposing ignoring sex work, that the alternative is hard criminalization of sex workers or that it is about protecting sex workers/trafficking victims at the expense of the other. Or that I advocate for unsafe practices because if offends my sensibilities.

I am just saying that oftentimes the public debate and the setting of agendas ignores reality and tends to circle around ideal types. (Edit.) And maybe that those who plan and implement public policies have to acknowledge that we are talking about people first and foremost.

3

u/predy_mama Kitchen Witch ♀♂️☉⚧ Oct 02 '22

Two of my closest friends do sec work to survive financially. They are human beings, and they deserve as much respect as anyone else.

Thank you for this post, because this topic has been hot on my mind lately.

3

u/moonsickk Resting Witch Face Oct 02 '22

we should accept as a society that sex work at it‘s core is not empowering or feminist, but we should not blame the people performing the work but the ones consuming and paying for it. Sex workers should be protected and assisted with ressources, not targeted and ciminalized.

6

u/kawaiiconcept Oct 02 '22

When I first learned about sex work I was blown away that it was illegal. It didn't really make any sense to me because both sides are consenting. Like if you take the money away or add a camera it's fine but if it's private it's suddenly not ok? That seems arbitrary. I've also heard a lot of stories about older people hiring sex workers to just talk with them since they are generally cheaper than therapists.

I think besides misogyny that is preventing it from being decriminalized is the fact that some can't separate sex and romance.

4

u/VidiVentura Oct 02 '22 edited Oct 02 '22

It didn't really make any sense to me because both sides are consenting

There is the argument that when the exchange of money is involved, the consent is questionable.

Louie CK obtained "consent" to masterbate in front of the women who worked for him, but it wasn't consent because he could end their career with an utterence.

Is it fundamentally different to "consent" to suck a strangers dick to not sleep on the street tonight?

Consent gets real grey and fuzzy when power dynamics are involed.

As a general rule I disagree with most of the fundamentals put forward by sex worker negative feminists (who in general, are really just sex negative), but this one detail I feel is the broken clock being right twice a day.

I use tinder as a revolving door to hook up with willing women for casual encounters. I could save a lot of time and effort just hiring a sex worker - But I don't because I cannot verify if the worker has chosen the work, or "chosen" not to be homeless.

4

u/DreamingJuniper0_o Oct 03 '22 edited Oct 03 '22

Aren’t we all doing some kind of work in order to not be homeless? You could say this same thing about any industry, including the restaurant you frequent. While I’m not telling you to go purchase their services, you could argue nothing is consensual based on this reasoning.

As a sex worker myself, a lot of us choose this line of work because we’re paid at higher rates for less hours worked which allows for time for being a student, artist, parent, etc. Sure, it can be exhausting and terrible - but who loves their job all the time?

To me it felt WAY more vulnerable and exploitative to work minimum wage for a non-profit than it does to do SW.

I’d argue that hiring a sex worker could be even more ethical than hooking up with folks on Tinder. Often SWers have incredible boundaries, are great at advocating for themselves, are happy to be compensated for their services by respectful clients, and the agreement / exchange can be more consensual than app hookups. At least full service SWers are being paid well for bad sex.

(nothing personal, I’m sure you give your dates a good time but most men don’t when they’re trying to get laid quick).

3

u/VidiVentura Oct 03 '22 edited Oct 03 '22

You've raised some interesting points for me to ponder, thanks for your input.I have a friend who used to work as an escort and she raised some similar points but less eloquently.

At least full service SWers are being paid well for bad sex.

Obstensibly I'd also be paying for good sex, Nothing more dissapointing when someone just goes full starfish and waits to climax without any real interaction at all.

I'm not sure it would work for me as I like to be woo'd, I think I'd feel a bit silly paying someone to woo me. But I've never passed judgement on either side of the transaction. It's just sex.

4

u/Euphoriapleas Oct 02 '22

Not everyone thinks about sex like this, and Louie didn't get consent at all, he just started, I don't think this is relevant. The more protections and options for sex workers the more options and power they have, and the power differential matters though it is present in all labor so again I don't think this is a good point as it's a problem with the coercive nature of capitalism and not sex work.

I have a problem with the "suck dick to not sleep on the street" that's what most people do we just don't see it as a problem if you're breaking your back to not sleep on the street.

So many issues people have with sex work is just capitalism.

2

u/VidiVentura Oct 02 '22 edited Oct 02 '22

and Louie didn't get consent at all, he just started

He did ask permission, He didn't get consent.

I don't disagree that sex workers deserve good conditions and safety, and that capitalism is inherently exploitative.

I do feel that sex is inherently different from typical labour, typical labour doesn't involve such a degree of intimacy and vunerablility. Sex work deserves a greater level of care and consideration.

I do agree that not everyone thinks the same, I was sexually harrassed by female bar staff constantly during college, and one of them would frequently try to get me to be blackout drunk and try and get in my pants. But it did not bother me in the slightest. But I recognize how and why other people can be devastated by this kind of behaviour.

6

u/BaileyBaby-Woof Oct 02 '22

I completely agree. I hope we one day adopt what Australia does with sex work. Insurance, protection. Etc no abuse, no pimps. I think it would make everyone involved safer and make it more meaningful.

2

u/DraftyElectrolyte Oct 02 '22

I totally agree with you.

I recently watched a movie that focused on the relationship between a sex worker and their client. “Good Luck to you, Leo Grande” on Hulu. I realize it’s fiction - but I really enjoyed it.

2

u/dvking131 Oct 02 '22

Sex work is some of the few honest jobs.

2

u/Environmental_Cake97 Oct 02 '22

I like to ask people what they hate the most “women having sex or women having money”?

6

u/JRSlayerOfRajang Sapphic Witch ♀ Oct 02 '22

Things like the Nordic Model and other persecution of sex workers is not meant to tackle trafficking. (If it is done with that intention, it is abundantly clear that it does not work and should not be argued for.)

One of the core dangers of trafficking is that people who are trafficked cannot seek support or justice. They are persecuted by the police and legal system, and will be criminalised, jailed or deported or all three. They do not have a way to escape from abuse. Strict immigration laws and discrimination, border controls and a lack of support for immigrants drive poor and vulnerable people towards trafficking as a means of escaping their previous situation in an attempt to find a better life in a wealthier country, and/or to support people they love, and then those people have no protection when their precarious situation and desire to move is exploited by those who hold power (both power over them, and power within society in general).

"Cracking down on trafficking" is never actually about supporting the victims of trafficking and helping them find safety. It should be, but it isn't. Because police, politicians, and society do not want to do that, they want to deport them back to where they were trafficked from (even if the person wants to stay).

This, and its inextricable connection to the persecution of sex workers, is not accidental. Them being sex workers is treated as a moral pretext for justifying their expulsion from society, and to strip away empathy for what they've been through and excuse the cruelty of uprooting them and deporting them, or giving them criminal records that heavily impact their futures.

The cruelty is the point.

"Tackling trafficking" is a socially acceptable excuse for pushing for heavier persecution of all sex workers. It sounds less horrible than admitting that they hate sex workers and want to punish them for doing sex work, no matter the reason. And it allows them to pretend they're trying to do something 'good', it's persecution spun as 'protection'.

1

u/_jamesbaxter Resting Witch Face Oct 02 '22

This is an important factor here!

5

u/SadCum69 Oct 02 '22

Also, unrelated, but fell in love with that sub. It is truly empowering and thanks to folks posting, commenting and educating.

2

u/Pumpkin__Butt Oct 02 '22

I can't wrap my mind around how some "feminists" are not supporting sw...

3

u/luminous_beings Oct 02 '22

I’ve said this since I was wayyy too young to even know what sex work is, and now I’m old and have still not changed my mind. You can make a living with your brain, with your hands, with your back- why can’t you make a living with your cooter if you feel like it? It’s yours.

5 to almost 45. I still can’t see this any other way.

4

u/Euphoriapleas Oct 02 '22 edited Oct 02 '22

I agree,It's pretty weird. So many problems people have with sex work is just capitalism, but framed as inherent issues to sex work. It might be helpful for people to just lump it with other labor, regardless, you're probably being exploited and should be protected.

3

u/[deleted] Oct 02 '22

[deleted]

7

u/MonstersareComing Oct 02 '22

Unfortunately even legal sex work is dangerous and harmful to sex workers.

2

u/[deleted] Oct 02 '22

[deleted]

3

u/in_the_sheyd Oct 02 '22

No, the Nordic model is an absolute failure when it comes to protecting sex workers and if you listened to sex workers you would know that. The community has been not ambiguous or divided on this subject. Or quiet.

3

u/AJSLS6 Oct 02 '22

The idea that it's at all about trafficking is a ridiculous lie, it is and always has been a case of imposed morality, morality the imposers rarely live up to themselves.

2

u/roxykell Eclectic Witch ♀♂️☉⚧ Oct 02 '22

I mean to restrict individuals from a specific profession is an infringement on liberty… and you know all the people against legalization of sex work are the same ones banning books and telling us what to do with our bodies. It’s hypocritical. Sex work should be safe and legal.

But there’s a puritan moral undertone to every decision made in the US that imo represents the church infringing on peoples individual rights. We have to address the underlying religious meaning in our legal codes, and so many politicians have some moral-religious agenda too.

2

u/IntoTh3Moonlight Resting Witch Face Oct 02 '22

In today’s episode of “People who mind other people’s business” we’ll be talking about how it should be illegal to tell other people what to do with their bodies. And people who do so should be jailed ☺️

2

u/birdlass Sapphic Witch ♀ Oct 02 '22

In general sex work of any kind needs to be destigmatised

2

u/_julius_pepperwood Oct 02 '22

I work in a prison and frequently have women tell me they have no work experience. When I ask how they were surviving, they say "well I was prostituting but that's not experience." I always tell them that sex work is work and it's hard and it's valid. Some of them were forced into it and some of them did it voluntarily and I validate each and every one of them. We have a local organization that helps sex workers, former or current, with whatever they need, be it housing or counseling or getting a car and I tell everyone about it and put their info in our resource binders. I safety plan with the clients who express that they are not done engaging in sex work, if they want to, and tell them that all I want to do is help them be safe, whatever that looks like for them.

Someone else mentioned the John Oliver episode on sex work and it was absolutely worth a watch.

0

u/Takkenwijf87 Oct 02 '22

Sex work is also part of healthcare. Most people crave intimacy but aren't able to to because of physical or mental health. Sex work helps and brings comfort

0

u/DreamingJuniper0_o Oct 03 '22

Maybe not the majority, but a lot of people who access SW services are disabled, neurodiverse, and/or have debilitating social anxiety that makes accessing intimacy in a non- transactional way imposible.

SW can help people feel normal, sometimes for the first time ever.

2

u/Lyvectra Oct 02 '22

I didn’t know being an emotional support human was a job. How do I get into being that? No sex though. Sex sucks.

3

u/jennyandthejets Oct 02 '22

Professional cuddlers actually are a thing. You provide cuddling for a price. There are multiple websites and some apps that provide the service.

0

u/Lyvectra Oct 02 '22

Oh. No. Not cuddling. No touch. Gross.

1

u/Throttle_Kitty Ruby - She/Her - 29 - Trans, Poly, Bi Witch ♀⚧ Oct 02 '22

Thank you for this! 💕

1

u/experfailist Oct 02 '22

So geniune question : i completely agree with everything you're saying. However there is a lot of abuse also aimed at people making use of sex workers services. It occurs to me it's the same crowd then dolling out the abuse?

5

u/tres_liebres Oct 02 '22

Is there just one crowd abusing sex workers?

1

u/NixyPix Oct 02 '22

There is a demand for a service (sex work) and people supplying that service. Those people deserve to have their job legitimised and be provided the safety at work that anyone on the clock deserves. I also agree about the importance of legalisation in the battle against sex trafficking.

What I’ll never understand about people who want to (re-)criminalise sex work, is that many of them would be hopping mad at the idea that sex workers can evade income tax. Legalise the profession then.

6

u/Similar_Function8580 Oct 02 '22

literally all actual sex workers and their organisations hate the idea of legalisation. that creates a new kind of abusive situations for a variety of reasons. DECRIMINALISATION is where it's at!!!

2

u/_jamesbaxter Resting Witch Face Oct 02 '22

Yup, I linked a pdf on the topic below from a SWer led organization. Decriminalization is the way.

1

u/NixyPix Oct 02 '22

My apologies, I’m using the term legalisation as a synonym for decriminalisation because in my mind they’re the same. We should absolutely be listening to those in the profession about how they are best protected and if legalisation =/= decriminalisation then I am all ears on what the best outcome for them is.

-1

u/Independent-Ad6314 Oct 02 '22

It's one of the oldest professions in the world, yet it's considered illegal. Go figure.

1

u/PirateoftheNorth Oct 02 '22

Both Holland and New Zealand consider sex work, work because that's what it is. New Zealand has amazing laws to protect the workers and to me its the best way forward.

1

u/Bazoun Stitch Witch ♀ Oct 02 '22

I hate pimps /madames. I don’t think that needs any elaboration.

I don’t have a lot of compassion for johns. I’m sure there are some who are just sad guys who need a hug or something, but a lot, maybe most, turn to sex workers because they can get away with treating them worse than others.

However, I don’t have any hate or blame for actual sex workers. I’m sure if they could find other work that paid as well the majority would choose to do something else.

Legalizing sex work provides protection to these at-risk individuals. It puts limits on pimps and johns.

As a society we should be protecting our most vulnerable members, and sex workers fall into that category.

2

u/in_the_sheyd Oct 02 '22

I do feel like it needs elaboration, or at least being unpacked. SWERFs and other anti-sex worker activists love to undermine sex workers by targeting pimps because the vast majority of civilians have no idea of how the sex industry works. Civilians understand pimping as sex trafficking and as abuse which is also how I use the word and those people absolutely do not deserve any compassion but when SWERFs and anti-sex work legislators say "pimp" they mean anyone who provides services to front line sex workers.

Escort agents, webmasters, landlords, security, payment processors, chat moderators, camera operators, bartenders, roommates, your friend who knows who your client that night is in case you don't come home. I could go on but this is just a small sampling of the people who get targeted when legislation goes after "pimping."

Ironically, by criminalizing "pimping" it makes it much more difficult to find people who can provide services who are actually safe to work with.

If you want to dismantle the conditions that force sex workers into contact with abusers and traffickers we need to go after rape and gendered violence writ large. It's not the support or the profit sharing that is the violence, here. It's the violence that's the violence, here.

Finally, don't think that most front line sex workers don't wear both hats from time to time. These jobs need to be done if you want to make a living selling sex and most of these jobs increase safety. Many sex workers cooperate to provide these services to each other, when possible.

1

u/Viperbunny Oct 02 '22

I grew up Catholic. I have worked really hard to change my negative views about sex. It is really damaging. People who engage in sex work are working hard. People clearly want the services. Who the hell am I to tell people what they can or can't do with their bodies. Regulate it! Make sure people who do this kind of work have protections. I don't understand why it is considered immoral to have sex.

-1

u/Lurkwurst Oct 02 '22

100%. I will consider Western civilization to have evolved enough to meet my personal expectations of what humanity is capable of when prostitution is legalized, codified and considered normal.

1

u/bilboard_bag-inns Oct 03 '22

It comes under the same umbrella. Enforcing morals of a few onto many. There are tons of people who don't think sex work is immoral (ie don't believe in not having premarital sex) so it's kinda like the "but God doesn't like it" argument for banning abortion in states. Personally, I'm religious and would not use any sex services or anything, but why do my beliefs and choices have to be what everybody does. Since I believe my religion is true, yes it would be amazing for everybody to be on board but I believe in freedom of religion so Im not gonna push that on anybody through a law.

Plus you're right, it's like prohibition. People are always gonna do sex work and use sex services, so making it illegal just means you push it to dangerous criminal people, make it hard for any victims of crimes to seek assistance, etc

1

u/Winter_Hedgehog3697 Oct 03 '22

Amsterdam legalized it, regulated it and gave them benefits. A sex worker in Amsterdam has better benefits than a lawyer in Mexico T-T

0

u/99centtaco1234 Oct 02 '22

I'm aware that women make money in porn I was being sarcastic honestly I don't know how that wasn't apparent.