r/videos 3d ago Gold 1 All-Seeing Upvote 1 Coin Gift 1 Take My Energy 1 Silver 1

Flat earther debates an actual astronomer for an hour

https://youtu.be/he-7vs0BkLE
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u/Redwing330 3d ago

Ain't no WAY I am watching a Flat Earther debate for 1 hour.

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u/Bathroomhero 3d ago

It was more like watching a Flat Earther say stupid shit and get called on it for an hour. If he started to lose on a topic he would change the topic and they would drag them right back to the previous topic.

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u/NerdyNThick 3d ago

If he started to lose on a topic he would change the topic and they would drag them right back to the previous topic.

This is the common tactic with flerfs... Spew out a ton of claims without any evidence to back them up, then when challenged, deflect and change the topic.

Here's two fantastic examples.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t17DGRdYPs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BO2htzgHS7M

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u/th3d3wd3r 3d ago All-Seeing Upvote

Flat earth dave is a master at gish galloping.

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u/NerdyNThick 3d ago

They all are. It's one of their major skills. That's why there's a handful of flat earth debunkers that flat earthers will just refuse to debate because they know they can't get away with it.

Prof Dave was/is very new to the flat earth debate community, so they had no idea just how much science knowledge he had.

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u/th3d3wd3r 3d ago

The should have researched who they were going up against. Prof dave is a very smart individual.

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u/A_Math_Debater 3d ago Silver

Evidently, they are not the best at researching...

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u/NerdyNThick 3d ago

They (Flerfs) never are, despite "do your own research" being their mantra. Their idea of research is YouTube videos made by other flat earthers.

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u/elvishfiend 3d ago

Or the flat earthers who ran their own experiment that would "prove the earth is flat" and when it didn't they were all "huh, that's interesting, we'll have to do more experiments" rather than accepting they proved themselves wrong

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u/NerdyNThick 3d ago edited 3d ago

IIRC that was Jeranism... It was two boards with a hole in them set at the same height off the ground and separated by a certain distance. If the Earth was flat, you would be able to see a light pass through one hole, then the other without issue.

That.... Was not the result they received, which spawned "interesting" as a flat earth meme.

The other major one would be Bob Knodel. He went so far as to buy a $20,000 ring laser gyro which is a VERY precise tool to measure movement and rotation. His "experiment" showed a 15 degree per hour drift, 15 degrees * 24 hours = 360 degrees. Thus the flat earther Bob Knodel successfully provided very strong evidence that the earth is indeed rotating around its axis. This spawned the "Thanks Bob!" flat earth meme, for essentially doing the debunkers jobs for them.

To quote Bob himself:

"What we found is, when we turned on that gyroscope, we found that we were picking up a drift," Knodel explains. "A 15-degree per hour drift.

"Now, obviously we were taken aback by that - 'Wow, that's kind of a problem.'

"We obviously were not willing to accept that, and so we started looking for easy to disprove it was actually registering the motion of the Earth."

Thanks Bob!

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u/meco03211 3d ago

Antivaxxers too. With a Facebook "friend" who posts dumb shit all the time I like to start a list of shit he doesn't respond to or debunked claims he repeats. When I start that, suddenly he stops responding cause he's "busy with life".

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u/NerdyNThick 3d ago

When I start that, suddenly he stops responding cause he's "busy with life".

Yep, that's exactly how it is with flat earth (or any anti-science debate/discussion). The instant they can tell the line of questioning they're being forced to go down will result in them saying something that counters their position they will ignore/deflect or otherwise refuse to answer.

Gravity is a big problem for them, as it's something whos existence (in so far as there is a constant downwards acceleration of 9.8m/s2) is indisputable -- things fall down and you cannot handwave that away. So they're forced to come up with anything they can do explain it. Density is their current attempt. That brick fell because it's denser than the air. Ignoring the fact that it always falls in the same direction, no matter what.

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u/Free_Dome_Lover 3d ago edited 3d ago

If it falls because it's denser than air, how does it know to fall downwards? What is down?

Shit flat earthers can't answer is truly baffling.

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u/jim653 3d ago

Down is just a universal law according to them. It's just ipse dixit. Even though it contradicts their claim that the atmosphere would escape into space without a dome. If matter falls to earth because it's denser than the medium it's in, then any cloud of gas in space would fall to earth because it's denser than space. No dome needed. They just run away when you point that out, however. Also, when you point out that, since ice is less dense than water, it should not sink partially into water – it should wholly float on the surface.

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u/ce2c61254d48d38617e4 3d ago

It also takes substantially more time to disprove falsehoods than it does to make them.

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u/hakkai999 3d ago

If flat earthers/conspiracy theorists had any sense of introspection and logical thinking they wouldn't be flat earthers/conspiracy theorists. The ability to learn and accept the possibility of being wrong is something that these people lack because they assume that they are right and will never be wrong.

They would rather bend or even break their perception of reality to fit their narrative rather than damage their own ego.

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u/SortedChaos 3d ago

It's possible also that they know what they are doing and know it's all BS but it makes them relevant so they do it.

You see the same thing with psychics and other paranormal experts.

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u/NerdyNThick 3d ago

It's possible also that they know what they are doing and know it's all BS but it makes them relevant so they do it.

For what we in the community call "papa-flerfs" this is almost a certainty. Dave Weiss and the other ones (Bob Knodel [Thanks Bob!], Mark Sargeant, Austin Wisit, Nathan Oakley, etc..) all make their living due to flat earth. There is no chance they will ever admit they're wrong, to do so would cause them to lose their source of income forcing them to get an actual job.

So we're left with them doing everything they can to take quotes out of context, and misunderstand scientific papers in order to come up with even half way plausible arguments against the facts of reality itself.

If it wasn't so funny, it would be sad.

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u/Captainbuttman 3d ago

This is the common tactic with flerfs

The fuck is a flerf? Flat Earth Radical Feminist? lol

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u/NerdyNThick 3d ago

Hah! Sorry, it's just automatic for me these days. Flat Earther... I think, but am not sure that the "erf" part comes from the commonly mis-heard line by Will Smith in Independence Day "Welcome to Earf".

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u/derpityhurr 3d ago

Dude those are even longer, who's supposed to watch this

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u/boldra 3d ago

I thought it was pretty funny!

"I'm not going to watch a 1-hour video!"

"Here are a couple of 2-hour videos then!"

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u/exsea 3d ago

yeah my thoughts exactly. its like doubling down.

like i support gay people but i m not into gay porn, if you then send me some of the "best gay porn", i simply am not gonna watch it.

i almost laughed IRL seeing how ridiculous this comment thread played out.

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u/nonegotiation 3d ago edited 3d ago

He even got called out for it RIGHT HERE

Look at the smile on the Astronomers Farinas face. Priceless.

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u/Eschotaeus 3d ago

Holy shit man. The part a few minutes after what you linked where he’s talking about a ship sailing over the horizon. I was absolutely stunned he even mentioned that bc I thought if anything the way a ship disappears after sailing away would prove the earth ISN’T flat…motherfucker states exactly what happens as if it proves the earth is flat and not the other thing. I don’t get it.

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u/Xyex 2d ago

Because we can "see too far." The argument is that it you use zoom on a camera or whatever that the object that disappeared over the horizon comes back into view. Because it it didn't disappear, it just got too small to see because of perspective. And the reason it always disappears bottom up and does so before it fully shrinks away so you can actually see that happen is refraction, which is a thing that only exists when they need it to explain something impossible.

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u/edwardlleandre 3d ago

This is why the best way to argue with them isn't to engage on the science. That is a losing battle. The way to cripple them is to get them to admit to the crazy underneath, because it is where they are rarely challenged and look so much worse.

Like I know full well that in a debate with a flat earther, I'd lose. They have spent hundreds or thousands of hours making up shit about physics, in a way that only an expert can really cover. If you confront them, they move like water to the next point and the next and the one after that.

Instead, you cede all of that, you say "Sure, lets say you're right and there are some weird inconsistences. Tell me how this conspiracy works."

Because that is actually much, much easier for people to intrinsically understand.

So the earth is flat? Well that means that non-stop flights in the southern hemisphere either need massively more fuel, or they need to be fake. If it is the first, how come not a single pilot in the history of aviation has wondered "Hey, why are we carrying 10,000 extra liters of fuel?" How do they deal with logistics? Do they load two crews and rotate? How do they keep all these people quiet about the fact that it takes three times as long to fly the trip?

If they are all fake flights, why has no pilot anywhere ever commented on that? All the airlines are in on the scam, I guess? And every private ship? Like routes between say... Japan and australia would be hours or days longer than they should be, and they'd take a wildly different course. No one ever noticed?

Its this shit that trips them up, because as soon as you bring it down to things that a layman can understand it makes no intrinsic sense. You'd have tens of millions who would interact with the conspiracy in some way or another where they should casually notice it. But they never do?

I have a book in my closet that contains my grandpa's flight logs as a pilot in WW2. I plotted those out on google maps and they all check out to his timing, but they make no sense on a flat earth. Was my grandpa in on the conspiracy too?

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u/bamisdead 3d ago

and they would drag them right back to the previous topic.

This is really important to do when debating people like this, and when talking to conspiracy theorists in general (along with bad faith political types). It's really common for them to move the goalposts, change the subject, "but what about," and so on. Any time there is a danger of having to admit they were mistaken or wrong, they'll attempt to distract or move to something else.

Never let them. Stay focused on the topic at hand and the points the are trying to make, and when you see them trying to play these games, pull them back.

It won't allow you to "win" the debate, no, but you have to understand that you can't win an argument with these people.

What you CAN do, however, is to refuse to play their game and refuse to let them control the conversation. That is, after all, among the only power they have.

If you must wade into the muck with them - and I don't recommend it - do so knowing the game they are about to play and being prepared to not play it. Dismantle their points for the sake of other people reading/watching, and otherwise don't get caught up in that crap.

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u/ConsciousLiterature 3d ago

So the Ben Shapiro school of debating then.

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u/IRBMe 3d ago Gold Platinum Helpful Wholesome All-Seeing Upvote

This is pretty much how it went:

Flat Earth Dave: How can you explain this?
Professor Dave: Using this very simple science, are you stupid?
Flat Earth Dave: Well what about this completely different thing?
Professor Dave: What are you talking about? That makes no sense.
Flat Earth Dave: Okay what about this thing?
Professor Dave: I just explained that. Children understand this stuff.
Flat Earth Dave: Let's move on. This piece of science makes no sense!
Professor Dave: I mean... it does. You just don't understand it. Like, at all
Flat Earth Dave: Stop condescending me :(
Professor Dave: Dude you literally think that all of astronomy, geology, physics, and most of science is a lie from Satan. Me calling you stupid - which you are - is literally nothing when you offend literally the entire human race with your idiocy.

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u/metalgtr84 3d ago

And then the Professor reminds him there’s no working flat earth model. Like you can’t even explain how sunrise and sunset work with the seasons.

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u/GWJYonder 3d ago

Important to note that all the different map projections with different pros and cons are because of the impossibility of perfectly mapping an ellipsoid to two dimensions. If the Earth was actually flat they would be able to make a map that completely accurately matched every piece of terrain. They should be able to make a completely accurate model easily.

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u/bieker 3d ago

You can’t bring logic to a stupidity fight.

A flat earther will hand waive that away as a conspiracy by “them” to convince you that the earth is not flat.

There is no point in debating them because there is no pile of logic or experimental evidence that will make them go “oh I was wrong all along, thanks for enlightening me”

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u/slammer592 3d ago

If you haven't already, you should watch, "Behind the Curve." It's a flat earth documentary in which flat earthers do experiments to prove the earth is flat and they fail. When they fail, they don't conclude they were wrong, they conclude there was something wrong with the experiment. They even buy a $20k gyroscope and go, "Okay, if the world IS round, this thing will have a 15° tilt after 1 hour, but it won't because the earth is flat." Then it does and they conclude that there must have been some sort of interference and they need to construct a chamber out of bismuth to block any interference and do the experiment again.

These people just believe what they want to believe regardless. They're so stubborn and tribal that they don't trust their own experiments.

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u/PhillAholic 3d ago

The experiment at the end with the light and poles was even more hilarious. It’s so stupid simple and proves the earth is round.

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u/Xyex 3d ago

Was that the one where they shone a laser across a lake at target at the same height above the ground, only to have to raise the target several feet higher to actually have the light hit it? I've seen flat Earthers do that experiment 3 or 4 times now with the same result and still not figure it out....

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u/OnlyRadioheadLyrics 2d ago

It was a canal for the record but yeah

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u/loafsofmilk 2d ago

They keep doing this experiment because it was once done famously and did show that the earth was flat - the working theory on those results was that there was some refraction due to temperature differences across the length. I believe that experiment has "proven" a flat earth, spherical earth and negative curvature bowl earth. It's not a reliable test, even though it's very intuitive.

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u/Xyex 3d ago

Thanks, Bob!

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u/Hither_and_Thither 3d ago

And if you get past the lack of logic, now you must contend with the stupor of pride!

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u/spiritbx 3d ago

"Well I can't be wrong, so that can only mean that everyone else must be!"

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u/Doctor-Amazing 3d ago

Who benefits from lying about the Earth being round? Why would this even be a conspiracy?

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u/nigelthewarpig 3d ago

The Stonecutters!! They also keep the metric system down and Atlantis off the maps.

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u/xorfivesix 3d ago

We do! We do!

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u/T_WRX21 3d ago

I've noticed it's generally tied into some bonkers religious position. So Satan is the one trying to fool everybody.

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u/Kahzgul 3d ago

Anyone dumb enough to believe in flat earth almost certainly has choice thoughts about “the Jews,” too.

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u/Picard2331 2d ago

If you watch the All Gas No Brakes (now Channel 5) video on the Flat Earth convention then this is obvious. So many unsolicited opinions about Jews and Hitler lol.

https://youtu.be/H110vCGvTmM

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u/taco_trailer 3d ago

It depends on how far down the conspiracy rabbit hole they are. They almost inevitably end up at anti semitism, but it's not an instant progression. If JFK folks are like weed (mostly harmless and silly), flat earth is like cocaine. You aren't a dysfunctional meth addict (anti semitism) yet, but you're on track to get there.

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u/ArabSpring2010 3d ago

If you go to the YouTube comments it's always the Jews.

Kyrie Irving thinks the earth is flat and recently had some comments about Jews as well.

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u/Xyex 3d ago

NASA. And/or "the elites." And/or the devil. Apparently the Earth being flat is the greatest evidence of God and if everyone knew it was flat everyone would immediately be Christian and all the atheists would lose their magic powers. Or something. They never very clear on the point that tens of millions of people over several thousand years have lied about basic science or why no one but them has figured it out despite the liars being horribly inept and make obvious mistakes every 3 seconds. 🤷

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u/toolatealreadyfapped 3d ago

That's exactly where I get so hung up. Like, what possible benefit would there be in lying to the world about its shape?!

A conspiracy theory has to start with a smell test. And this one fails right off the bat.

Unrelated, but that's my same head scratch moment at election deniers. Like, if Trump went into the election with a high approval rating, no pressing legal issues, high polling rates, and a strong midterm showing, and then lost... I might actually think, "huh. That doesn't track. Are we sure everything was on the up and up?"

But he was EXTREMELY polarizing, and EXTREMELY disliked, polling poorly, unfavorable, and in all likelihood expected to lose. Or, at least expected to be strongly challenged. So when he did lose, the logical reaction from everyone should have been "yeah. That makes sense." The Big Lie doesn't pass the smell test.

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u/AJMax104 3d ago

In order for the Earth to be flat it would have to be endless. Thered be an edge.

Because theres no new Earth waiting to be discovered.

I hate how people make money off of this

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u/RichardCheeseLicker 3d ago

There’s an Atlantic wall bro, that goes from the ground to near outer space. It’s protected by the world governments and all of the hundreds of thousands of employees have managed to keep it secret. And flights are diverted so you could never reach it.

But nice try, Round-tard.

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u/Call_Me_Mommy_83 3d ago

Round-tard 🤣

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u/Raichu4u 3d ago

I'd love for them to point out where the wall os (let's say, in the Pacific between Hawaii and Japan). Then ask them why a flight takes so quickly to get there.

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u/Xyex 3d ago

Everyone I've seen says that Antarctica is where the wall is. They use the top down map with the north pole at the center, which makes Antarctica encircle the entire thing. It's the "ice wall" that keeps the oceans from draining. Then somewhere on it is where the "dome" that covers the Earth comes down at. And that it was discovered by the first people to reach the south pole and that the military keeps everyone away and that's why no one is allowed in Antarctica (even though they totally are).

Though I've also seen some who don't believe there's a wall at all and that the plane is actually infinite. Some who think there's just more oceans and landmasses beyond Antarctica, with their own sun to light them. And some who think most of the plane is frozen over but a few places have been "thawed" like ours and have lands and oceans and their own suns to light them.

Shit gets pretty wild, honestly.

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u/Shoddy_Background_48 2d ago

Imagine how many ships and personnel it would take to consistently patrol the whole "ice wall" to prevent anyone from reaching it. And that it's been done for years. That would be hundreds of thousands of sailors that all kept quiet.

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u/Xyex 2d ago edited 2d ago

Yeah, you're looking at a circumference of about 78,000 miles. Most Navy ships can do something like 40mph. So if a ship had to patrol even 100 miles of the wall that's still 2.5 hours to cover all of that, end to end. Then another 2.5 to go back. So a 5 hour gap of observation at either end of the patrol route. Plenty of time for someone to slip by. And that extremely weak patrol would require 780 ships to be able to cover the entire wall.

And of course halving the patrol route to improve times would double the number of ships needed. Realistically you'd probably want a much smaller range, something like 20 miles per ship. The ship could patrol the length in just 30 minutes, round trip in an hour. Or sit in the center of the range and be able to reach the furthest points should it need to in only 15 minutes.

That's 3,900 ships. The Navy's costal patrol ships have a crew of about 28 people each. That's 109,200 people deployed at sea 24/7/365 at a minimum. Not to mention all the support ships and crews needed to take supplies and crew transfers to these guard boats. And even with a short 20 mile line to guard the ships would need detection support to notice someone slipping by at the edges. Which means even more people.

So, yeah, logistically alone it's completely impossible.

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u/Velocity_LP 3d ago

GLOBEHEADS BTFO

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u/Bcnhot 3d ago

Even easier: how can you explain that south and north display different stars in a flat earth model?

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u/zer1223 3d ago

"no you don't understand the sun just travels in a wave-like pattern over the flat earth disc for no reason that we could possibly explain!"

On top of how they couldn't possibly explain how the sun casts a half-circle shadow or why it revolves around an empty point in space regardless

I always like to point out how the stars slowly rotate clockwise in one hemisphere and rotate counterclockwise in the other hemisphere. Another phenomenon that can't possibly be explained by a flat model

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u/elkharin 3d ago

They can't even explain why raindrops aren't flat.

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u/blyatseeker 3d ago

Its just convenient magic, everybody knows this in flat earth community. /s

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u/Janktronic 3d ago

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u/CeaRhan 3d ago

What's up with hosts with wide open eyes looking like their smile is frozen on their face like they're experiencing euphoria over and over again? I'm not mocking the guy, absolutely not, but I feel like you'd need a constant effort to do that and this guy is effortlessly doing it.

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u/PixelPerfection 3d ago

I just signed up to NVIDIA Maxine that uses AI to make me appear like I am smiling and looking interested at my meetings.

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u/Veruna_Semper 2d ago

Oh my god it's real

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u/sentimentalpirate 3d ago

Shoot the prof actually really fumbled a few minutes after that. The dude was basically asking why summer nights are warmer than winter nights considering the sun is not hitting that part of the earth at night so the angle of sunlight is negated.

The answer would be of course that we have an atmosphere which retains heat and the physical earth retains heat too.

But the prof wasn't understanding what flat earth dude was asking at all so he missed a chance to actually answer flat earthers misguided but more nuanced question about seasons.

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u/Caelinus 3d ago

It does not really matter honestly. Flat Earthers cannot accept correction and remain a flat Earther. As such you cannot win a debate against them, they are just enjoyable due to the overwhelming sense of schadenfreude at the flat earther getting crushed.

They are super hard to debate though, because they are so objectively disconnected from reality that it is often hard to understand what they are saying.

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u/TheWingus 3d ago

It’s things like this that make me believe; “No you are NOT entitled to your opinion, if your opinion conflicts with demonstrable facts, just because you don’t understand them.”

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u/ashok36 3d ago

It's one thing to have an alternative theory. It's another thing to look at a theory with literally hundreds of years worth of observations and successful predictions and say, basically, "That doesn't make sense to me so it must be wrong".

Also, almost all flat earthers believe the round earth theory is a deception by the jews. Flat earther ideology is super antisemitic when you start digging into it.

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u/fprintf 3d ago

Whoa this explains a lot to me all of a sudden. A guy I ride with started going off on his flat earth mumbo jumbo and I tried debating him but he wasn't hearing any of it. Said he didn't believe this flat earth stuff either until he read/heard something that convinced him of it... turns out he's a skinhead and totally antisemitic. That must be what convinced him, someone said the earth is round was invented and push by Jews. Damn.

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u/zarex95 3d ago

Why does italways boil down to antisemitism with these things?

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u/Michamus 3d ago

This video could have been over in one minute.

Professor: “If the Earth wasn’t flat, would you want to know?”

Flat Earther: “{Anything other than an emphatic yes}”

Professor: “Then this debate serves no purpose, as no amount of evidence or logic will change your mind. Goodbye.”

Or

FE: “Yes.”

Professor: “What evidence can I show you that would change your mind?”

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u/Pickle_ninja 3d ago

I (NASA Engineer) sat at a bar in Scotland once with my flat-Earther brother having a pint.

My brother: The Earth is flat.
Me: No it most certainly is not.
My brother: Prove it.
Me: back in the sixties you would see videos where astronauts would go through "black out periods". This was due to the rocket going around the Earth and out of sight from our communications. Some time in the 80s we created TDRSS which bounced a satellite signal around the Earth to stationary satellites positioned around the planet in geosynchronous orbit. No more blackouts. If the Earth was flat, we wouldn't need that, just one big antenna.
My brother turns to the Bartender and asks "Do you think the Earth is flat?".
The bartender: I think you should take advantage of our socialized health care and get some therapy.

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u/Axle-f 3d ago

I love how immediately after his non-argument was detonated he just looks for some social proof as though the bartender was about to draw forth the real flat earth secrets.

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u/Un0Du0 3d ago

It's blacked out because he flew on the other side of the flat earth where nobody lives Taps head

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u/Known_Bug3607 3d ago

Bartenders are entry-level therapists; that man just gave a referral to a specialist.

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u/ReveilledSA 3d ago

I'm surprised your brother didn't just claim that astronauts are all paid actors, I thought that was a fairly common belief among that crowd. If that were true both the black out period and the TDRSS would just be smoke and mirrors and their existence wouldn't actually prove the earth to be round.

In fact arguably if we somehow lived for real on a flat earth we'd still need something like the TDRSS since anything on a circumpolar orbit would spend half its orbit under the disc.

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u/Breakfest-burrito 3d ago

And they call themselves, the aristocrats

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u/Jlx_27 3d ago

Best TLDR ever.

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u/dben89x 3d ago

At first I thought he was being a bit rude, but then I thought about how many people Flat Earth Dave confuse with his stupid picture presentations and using linguistic somersaults to convince an... Impressionable audience.

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u/Valendr0s 3d ago

Called the Gish-Gallop

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u/RedSteadEd 3d ago

Yeah, I could handle an hour of watching an idiot get smacked down by a scientist. That sounds tremendously cathartic.

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u/cmmedit 3d ago

Stop interrupting- Stop being a dick.

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u/PicaDiet 3d ago

I went down the rabbit hole a bit. There is a 2 hour video of him debating Christian carnival barker, Kent Hovind who proves almost immediately that he can argue a point for 10 minutes after it has been dismissed and proven ridiculous. Hovind just keeps making the same arguments whose conclusions aren't even related to the premises no matter how many times Dave tries to explain a simple concept to him. It's insufferable. I jumped around to a few different spots and had to stop watching because I got too mad. I don't know how Professor Dave puts up with it.

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u/potsandpans 3d ago

you know we live in a dumbass society when people think they’re smarter than experts who devote their entire lives to their field and some asshole watched some youtube video and think they’re critical thinkers who know the real truth now

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u/Vessix 3d ago edited 2d ago

I have engaged in discussions with flat earthers and I always end it real quick.

"Why don't you buy a high altitude balloon, a camera you test at ground level to guarantee the lens does what you want, and prove the world wrong for $400?"

Edit: I am aware the majority of them are trolls. This is how you throw them for a loop.

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u/Unsd 3d ago

Hahaha I watched a flat weather documentary where they actually do run their own test using a high powered laser over a large span of land to determine if there was actually a curve, and proved themselves wrong. And then they immediately changed their conclusion to fit their hypothesis.

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u/kerohazel 2d ago

Was it Behind the Curve? That one ended with a laser based experiment like that. The best part was not only did they accidentally prove the Earth curved, they even got the measurements right for the radius of the planet.

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u/SuchHonour 3d ago

I asked something like this once, the response was something in the lines of the government puts particles in the sky so you can't see as far (lol).

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u/ashok36 3d ago

Same for Chem trails. They're right there. Go take some samples.

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u/bigmacjames 3d ago

Debate is a pretty generous term

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u/Beingabummer 3d ago

It's weird how certain scientific facts can be debated. Like, I guess you could debate things like the Big Bang or how the moon was formed, but you can literally see that the earth is round. I don't know if debate would be the correct term. More like 'someone can't understand science and the other side tries to convince them it's true'.

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u/bigmacjames 3d ago

"Someone feels special because they think they know something no one else knows and I'm here to disprove that." Doesn't roll off the tongue well

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u/Dwedit 3d ago

Not watching this on Youtube, otherwise I'll get nothing but flat earth shit in my recommendations for years.

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u/doubledogdick 3d ago

man it is actually kind of entertaining, the astronomer gives no fucks about civility and steamrolls every thing this guy says, it's hilarious

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u/HighTopsLowStandards 3d ago

Save yourself the trouble: the scientist calls him a douchebag at the end. Having repeatedly proved that this guy is, in fact, a douchebag.

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u/HalfofaDwarf 3d ago

You know I'm reminded of this one bigfoot channel

The guy that runs is it some kind of nutters narcissist. He's long moved on from reason and sense and is now fully in the deep end of being totally loopy. According to him, bigfoot is a highly advanced and magical race with unknown abilities and technology that stop everyone from knowing they exist, unless you're special and they know you and totally talk to them off screen.

Every video, he appeals to the people that watch him and it's some straight up cult shit. They're the only ones that know the truth, everyone else is 'fake' and stuck believing in the real world and if you want the truth you have to 'stop thinking with your normal brain'.

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u/ShitPostGuy 3d ago Vibing

I was actually part of a bigfoot hunting group for a summer.

A bunch of friends would get together every weekend for beers and one summer we decided we should all hunt for bigfoot and see who could see one first. So for a whole summer everyone would go out and plant fake evidence for the other people to find while also looking for the evidence others had placed. Then at the weekend beer event you’d report what you found but never reveal what you’d placed.

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u/Titan-uranus 3d ago

Man this sounds like a blast

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u/Portablewalrus 2d ago

Hell yea. Like some sort of twisted and complicated hash house harriers

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u/Dontyouclimbtrees 3d ago

Sounds dope.

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u/Synyster328 3d ago

This sounds like reverse Clue™

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u/bulgarian_zucchini 3d ago

Dude can you link it? I’m in the mood to go down these lunatic conspiracy rabbit holes.

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u/HalfofaDwarf 3d ago

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u/wizard680 3d ago

This is the kinda shit I would watch moist critical watching

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u/AndrewTheSouless 3d ago

"This is the greatest lunatic of all time"

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u/Jam_blur 3d ago

I misread your post and thought you came up with a new insult of claiming they had moist critical thinking skills.

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u/zHellas 3d ago

That's just SCP-1000

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u/sysadminbj 3d ago

I’m growing increasingly convinced that most Flat Earthers, at least the ones screaming the loudest on screen, are actually just trolls that are absolutely 100% committed to their troll. So much so that they can’t turn back.

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u/Vicstolemylunchmoney 3d ago

They are the grifters or grifted. Saving face and retaining a friendship group and identify sometimes requires lying to yourself.

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u/g_e_r_b 3d ago

That’s exactly it. A lot of these fringe beliefs and/or conspiracy theories are held by people who not only have tied their identity to the belief, but also their social network. To cut ties with your entire social support structure because you change your mind on a particular topic… that takes courage.

Check out How Minds Change: The New Science of Belief, Opinion and Persuasion by David McRaney if you are interested in this.

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u/Beingabummer 3d ago

The group also works to isolate its members. It's like a core tenant, where the group has its own lingo, its own customs, its own social expectations. You are encouraged to distance yourself from people that don't agree or that challenge the group. Anyone speaking out inside the group gets kicked out. Uniformity, compliance and subservience are mandated.

So when you want to leave, you realize that they have effectively isolated you to the point that there is nowhere to leave to. Your old life is gone. Relationships outside of the group have been damaged or destroyed. You've burnt bridges for the group. The group is now all there is. And it's better to be in the group than to be alone.

It's an abusive relationship when you dig all the way to the bottom.

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u/urmomaisjabbathehutt 3d ago

How sad is to try to retain frienship with a group that try so hard to delude themselves

a frienship based on a common delusion so big that they have to distort the most basic easily demostrable facts

i'd feel better about them if they did claim that reality was a delusion produced by our senses but that isn't what they do, they don't deny the empirical reality of the physical universe, they just make a dumb demostrably impossible version of it so they can all relate to their common lunacy and be friends with each other

really sad and really pathetic

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u/Beingabummer 3d ago

Relating to the link to religion another commenter already made, people really want to belong to a group. It's one of humans' major follies I'd say. I suspect a lot of these people are lonely for one reason or another, they get in touch with someone that has weird beliefs like this, they never really thought about it so sure whatever you say man, are we friends now?

Imagine you've been alone your whole life and suddenly you find a group that accepts you. How hard will it be to turn your back on them and go back to being alone, even when the group is bad for you? Religion, gangs, Qanon, extremist political parties. It's a trap.

Even when you were never objectively alone but felt alone because of your opinions or beliefs, imagine the relief when you finally find people like you. And then you have to realize that they're bad for you, and then you have to leave them. I expect that's incredibly hard.

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u/Exodus111 3d ago

I bet most of them start out as the Grifted and then end up being Grifters.

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u/BlinkReanimated 3d ago edited 3d ago

It's like watching those "energy-based" martial arts. Clearly a bunch of people who have spent so much time believing the nonsense that they're seeing in front of them that when it's time to stand up and perform they just follow through.

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u/Dan_Felder 3d ago

I took one of them for a while. The instructor explained I needed to get better at letting the others throw me. Not kidding.

They said the throws would work against people with real attacking intention, so I had to do a better job attacking in way that mirrored that.

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u/OfCourseIKnowHim 3d ago

In pro-wrestling, that’s called “selling.” Haha

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u/medicriley 3d ago

. Saving face and retaining a friendship group and identify sometimes requires lying to yourself.

The world will never appreciate how spot on this is.

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u/oestrus 3d ago

I feel kind of bad when I see titles like 'how dumb are flat earthers?!?!?!' and how they're getting humiliated and put down and shown how dumb they are.

But what you've said hits it on the head and brings me happiness to see someone else saying it. It's a community first and foremost, a way for people who feel like they don't fit in with regular society to bond and feel connected as humans. Our biology is often stronger than logic.

And there's not really anyone being kind in a way that lets these folks feel safe admitting they were wrong or like they are welcome into other communities. We're just further alienating them by cheering on humiliation

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u/mbdjd 3d ago

And there's not really anyone being kind in a way that lets these folks feel safe admitting they were wrong or like they are welcome into other communities. We're just further alienating them by cheering on humiliation

Not true at all, there have been a number of Flat Earthers that have returned to sanity and have been welcomed with open arms.

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u/Alphaplague 3d ago

So it's a religion?

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u/CptnLarsMcGillicutty 3d ago Silver

Flat Earthers clearly don't care whether the Earth is flat or not, because if they did, they wouldn't be Flat Earthers, because the earth is round and everyone knows that and that's obvious.

So obviously it has nothing to do with believing the earth is actually flat. They are Flat Earthers because of what being a Flat Earther represents.

IMO, that means the rejection of social conditioning and compulsory belief in what you are told to believe. You also immediately become someone people "discriminate against", which can satisfy one's victim complex. On top of all that, you get loads of attention, regardless of if its positive or negative, which is perfect if you have narcissistic personality disorder.

TL;DR Its a simple, timeless, apolitical, quintessential conspiracy theory that lets you reject society, tell yourself you're a victim, and get you lots of attention. The actual subject matter, and whether or not you actually believe it, is irrelevant.

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u/gdshaffe 3d ago

Yeah. Folding Ideas has a great video on it here: https://youtu.be/JTfhYyTuT44 - "In Search of a Flat Earth".

It's 100% a symbolic position of social defiance. Most conspiracy theories are. That's why the go-to insult for the out-group is "Sheeple". We are the ones under the control of "The man" and doing what we're told. They're like the Cyberpunk Resistance, the rebels and free-thinkers, the ones with the fortitude to stand up to the societal programming and embrace the radical counter-narrative.

In their minds, at least. Their lack of capacity for critical thought of course actually makes them insanely manipulable.

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u/Xander707 3d ago

I think this nails it. We know they are full of shit. They know they are full of shit. They aren’t doing it because they think evidence is on their side, or that their arguments are based in rational logic. They want the attention. They want to be contrarian for the sake of it. They want to troll.

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u/mbdjd 3d ago

While there are many that are in it for the money/notoriety, I can absolutely assure you that the majority are true believers. Just the true believers aren't the prominent ones.

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u/stomach 3d ago

nah you just way oversimplified that comment to say something entirely different. they aren’t trolling, they have cognitive dissonance. not the same in any way at all. you can extend empathy for people with cognitive dissonance

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u/atomicgoat 3d ago

What’s a potato?

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u/sevargmas 3d ago

I work in tech. There is a girl at my work who is all about conspiracies. Vax stuff, flat earth, all of it. She believes satellites are maintained by a system of balloons and such. Her answers are just so far fetched when I quiz her on things. It’s just absurd.

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u/Bubba-jones 3d ago

BIRDS ARENT REAL

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u/SilentNightSnow 3d ago

No idea how people come up with crazy theories like flat earth, when the real conspiracy has been staring us in the face recording us with those beady little eyes.

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u/mbdjd 3d ago

Not trolls, just grifters. The Flat Earther featured here sells an app that has made $100k+, among plenty of other money making ventures.

They are simply conmen that pray on gullible or otherwise vulnerable people - those are the true believers.

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u/SaulsAll 3d ago Silver Gold

The main problem with flat earthers isnt that they are disbelieving or contrarian, but that they are lazy. Science LOVES being disproven. The greatest scientists we know became such icons precisely because they showed how science at the time was wrong. The difference is they put in the work.

Where are the flat earthers that go out and do the work? Where are the flat earthers that take the time to observe and record the movements of the sun every single day? Where are the flat earthers going out and making their own maps? Where are the flat earth scientists that are trying to advance their knowledge, rather than making hour long youtube videos of excuses and sophistry to try and cast doubt on established work?

They dont exist. Because flat earth isnt about understanding reality, it's about denying what has been revealed. It is anti-intellectualism in its purest form. It isnt about truth, it's about being "right", and any inquiry into reality might show something - ANYTHING - they dogmatically believe as wrong. And then they wouldnt be able to be smug about it.

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u/NBAccount 3d ago

Where are the flat earthers that go out and do the work?

They dont exist.

They actually do exist...but the cognitive dissonance is SO strong for the few willing to commit to "doing their own (usually very flawed) research"

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u/Myopic_Cat 3d ago

You have to give the flat-earthers some credit for the design of that experiment - it is 100% scientifically sound, super simple but absolutely conclusive. And then you have to mock them again for discrediting their own experiment when the results didn't go their way. (BTW this is from "Behind the Curve", a fantastic documentary about flat-earthers.)

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u/Dionyx 3d ago

Without watching the video I can still hear the guy go ‘hmm, that’s interesting’ when he accidentally proved the earth is round

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u/dovemans 3d ago

i think the best is right before that, 'can you move it up a bit?' like, he fucking knew what was coming :')

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u/NewbornMuse 2d ago

Which, again, is excellent experimental design. They don't just test the "it should be visible now if the earth was flat" condition, they also test the "it should be visible now if the earth was round" condition. This gives the experiment the power to conclusively prove either outcome, it rules out experimental problems (did we not see it because the holes were out of alignment horizontally? Was the light too faint? Was the camera set up wrong? Etc). Just overall a great experiment and a clever way to see with your own eyes what shape the earth is.

Then they throw it all out anyway. Absolutely infuriating.

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u/stray1ight 3d ago

"Hmm we should be able to see it now..."

And then "Move it up a bit..."

Fucking slays me every damn time.

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u/Wilcodad 3d ago

I want to believe future humans or aliens will find that footage and be like, alright so this is when they found out the planet they lived on was round

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u/ShitPostGuy 3d ago

Yeah, I actually thought a lot of the stuff they did in that movie was super cool. They came up with some really clever experiments to determine the shape of the Earth. And all of them were very conclusive that it is not flat.

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u/HanabiraAsashi 3d ago

And then immediately shit on their own experiments when improved them wrong. What's the point of an experiment if you won't except anything other than what you want to hear?

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u/ShitPostGuy 3d ago

I mean, when I was doing biochem research I fucking hated all my experiments too.

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u/SkyJohn 3d ago

Doing that would probably end all the friendships they have in the flat earth community and end any income they may be getting from their YouTube vids.

If your entire social structure and income is built around this crazy belief you’re never going to want to change with the possibility of being an outcast with no money and no mates to hang out with.

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u/wrongbutt_longbutt 3d ago

It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.

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u/Beingabummer 3d ago

It also gives an interesting look at their thought process.

Any evidence that proves the world is round has to be 100% accurate. Even a single iota of difference would prove it was wrong.

Evidence that would prove the world is flat? Oh you can just keep trying new stuff to get the evidence. If an experiment that's supposed to show the world is flat shows the world is round then there's some unknown factor messing with the results. Evidence that shows the world is flat has a lot of leeway.

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u/syphid 3d ago

I like this take!

"Your model is only 99% right so it's basically all wrong. My model is 40% right, and that means SOMETHING! Acknowledge my facts too!"

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u/guitar_vigilante 3d ago

Great documentary, and it shows that they really do end up doing the legwork. There are actually two experiments in that film where they confirm the curvature of the earth. The other one they get a very fancy and expensive gyroscope and their experiment is consistent with a non-flat earth.

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u/KaimeiJay 3d ago

Exactly! Flat earthers will say the Antarctic is just an ice wall defended by NASA snipers, hiding the rest of the world from this small pocket of it. They say they can gather a civilian fleet easily enough to overwhelm those defenses and see what lies beyond.

Great!

Go do it already!

They won’t.

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u/LakeEarth 3d ago

Yeah it's like dude ... you can go to the Antarctic. There are tours, there are cruises. Go! Look for yourself.

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u/klavin1 3d ago

"They won't take you all the way to the ice wall"

"that's not the real Antarctica"

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u/Beingabummer 3d ago

NASA snipers. I feel like they just do word association improv whenever they need to conjure up a new enemy.

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u/Cerevor 3d ago

You are spot on, but it's even more than wanting to deny science: you cannot be a flat-earther unless you buy into at least 3 other conspiracy theories.

If NASA is wrong about the globe and they won't admit it, then they must be actively hiding "truths". And if NASA can do that, then the government, teachers etc have also plotted to fool you. In fact, everyone who isn't a flat-earther is part of a lying cult!

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u/RoosterBrewster 3d ago

The thing is, there is no logical reasoning as to why anyone would be hiding it or what they would gain from it. With other conspiracies, it's usually about the elites keeping control to maintain power/wealth.

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u/K1N6F15H 3d ago

The thing is, there is no logical reasoning as to why anyone would be hiding it or what they would gain from it.

Lots of them believe in Satanistic cabals (it was mentioned in this video). Strict readings of the Old Testament lead these folks to conclude some blatantly untrue things like geocentrism and the firmament.

The "gain" here is a denial of God by the goddess scientists. Yes it is that dumb, yes we should probably be addressing supernatural beliefs head on instead of pretending they aren't totally undermining many people's ability to grasp reality.

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u/Fresque 3d ago

Airlines, tv, GPS system...

They all plotting

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u/derpityhurr 3d ago edited 3d ago

I would just love to see what happens if you actually put one of these idiots on a space shuttle and fucking show them the actual view.

The depressing thing is, I'm 99% sure they'd find some bullshit reason why they're still right and ruin the experience. Like claiming they faked the entire trip to space in some way.

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u/kent_eh 3d ago

The depressing thing is, I'm 99% sure they'd find some bullshit reason why they're still right.

They already do that when shown the earth's curvature from a passenger plane

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u/michaelrohansmith 3d ago

Or just walk in a straight line for 40000km and see where you end up.

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u/FRIENDLY_CANADIAN 3d ago

I'm now convinced that a small part of humanity is instinctively built to deny reality as an instinct of survival gone wrong.

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u/Fubarp 3d ago

There's a documentary where they talk to these scientists and they basically don't accept the results because xyz reasoning..

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u/tossaway109202 3d ago

You can't reason someone out of something they didn't reason themselves into.

“Never play chess with a pigeon.

The pigeon just knocks all the pieces over.

Then shits all over the board.

Then struts around like it won.”

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u/ithaqua34 3d ago

It takes a whole hour to tell someone they're stupid and full of shit?

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u/ZuFFuLuZ 3d ago

No. Quote from the video at 16:44
"Why don't you stop condescending to the entire human race and pretending that every scientist ever is a liar and satanic deceiver? That's much more offensive than me calling you stupid - which you are."

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u/creaturefeature16 3d ago

I really like what he said @ 54:00:

"It's a denial of literally all of Science: Astronomy - all wrong. Geology - all wrong. Physics - all wrong. It's so unbelievably offensive to the entire human race. That's why you're a douchebag, and me calling you stupid, is nowhere near the magnitude of douchebaggery, that is your entire identity."

Savage af (and right)

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u/N_Kento_N 2d ago

Professor Dave spitting straight fire.

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u/miladymondegreen 3d ago

Flat earthers, anti-vaxxers, climate change deniers, etc. are all rotten apples falling from the same anti-intellectualism tree. It really feels like deep-seated insecurity by undereducated people as the result of failures (read: gutting) of the education system. "I'm not stupid for being unable to understand science, you're just an evil liar! I'm going to go believe what's easier for me to digest, now, with a dash of self-aggrandizing exceptionalism for not being part of the 'sheeple.'"

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u/jesterfanatic 2d ago

I watched shit like this happen in real time while I grew up. An entire caste of self-aggrandizing narcissists spending every waking moment mocking anyone with an understanding of mathematics, anyone with a passion for language, or anyone interested in science. All because they were too insecure, too small, to admit that they didn't understand something. Idiots, all of them, not for not knowing, but for not even wanting to know.

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u/gregallen1989 3d ago

To be fair, he says that 30 seconds in then keeps saying it for the rest of the hour.

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u/Rangles 3d ago

right? is this even worth a watch?

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u/CurlySuefromSweden 3d ago

No. It's the epitome of "never argue with stupid people. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."

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u/EdEnsHAzArD 3d ago

"Arguing with a stupid person is like playing chess with a pigeon. They'll shit all over the board and then go and tell their friends they won anyway."

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u/RoosterBrewster 3d ago

I imagine it's like that Spongebob meme where Patrick is trying to give a wallet back.

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u/Flashy_Attitude_1703 3d ago

There is a video of a flat earther meeting and at the end some flat earthers decide to prove the Earth is flat. They actually did a pretty good experiment by putting three posts in the ground at the same height with a small hole at the top of two of them. The posts were far apart from each other. They then shot a laser through the first two holes on the tops of the post and if the earth was flat they should have seen a red dot at the top of the third post. Instead the beam went over the top of the third post. They showed that at least where they measured the Earth was curved and who knows maybe even round. Of course they ignored the results.

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u/BonafideZulu 3d ago

Of course. I still remember the surprised “Oh” from one of the guys in said video once he realizes he just proved himself wrong.

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u/KillerKilcline 3d ago

Never wrestle with pigs. You will both get covered in shit and the pig enjoys it.

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u/Johnothy_Cumquat 2d ago

This isn't necessarily directed at this video specifically but I hate how media often gives equal weight to science and whackjob bullshit. On the one side of the debate you have all of academia - countless people who have dedicated their lives to the pursuit of knowledge - and on the other side you have uncle Derick who dropped out of high school who reckons he knows better because he don't see no curve. It is an insult to treat these opinions as equally valid.

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u/WhamyKaBlammo 3d ago edited 3d ago

That's a good video, but point of order; Professor Dave isn't an astronomer.

He's a chemist, but he does a lot of videos on astronomy. Plus, a lot of astronomy uses things like spectroscopy and involves a lot of chemstry, so he definitely is an expert in that field. But I just wanted to point out his qualifications are in chemistry. I believe he also taught it in uni too (as an undergrad teacher, I think).

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u/OutlierJoe 3d ago

Yeah. He isn't an astronomer. It's just that he knows a lot about the science stuff.

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u/WhamyKaBlammo 3d ago

I wanna give you props for using the words from his actual intro, lol! ^_^

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u/Stripperturneddoctor 3d ago

But he is a Dave

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u/Atworkwasalreadytake 3d ago

2:16 - that is how far I could make it

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u/rbardy 3d ago

From about the 20min and forwards it gets WAY better, it is when the astronomer tell a fact and asks for the flatearther to explain how it would work.

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u/I_like_the_titanic 3d ago

That’s why debates have formats. They should have started off that way instead of wasting the first 20 minutes.

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u/RoosterBrewster 3d ago

Should just ask if there is any evidence they would accept as proof of a round world. If they say no, then the whole conversation is over lol.

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u/Beingabummer 3d ago

They'd lie.

Although it reminds me of an anecdote by Neil Degrasse Tyson where he talks to a moon landing conspiracist and just asks them what evidence they'd need to see to be convinced the moon landing really happened. And they say that if they saw the Apollo 11 lander on the surface of the moon, they'd be convinced.

So NDT pulls up these high res pictures the Chinese took of the entire surface of the moon and shows them the lander, on the moon. The guy immediately goes 'nah that's fake'.

According to him, NDT just walked away after that. They don't want to be convinced. They want to believe something special. But they want to make it look like it's a belief they came to because of evidence and logic.

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u/Spring_Assembly 3d ago

You know what’s even worse than the ones who are absolutely convinced? The ones that are ‘critical’. I know a dude that is ‘critical’ of climate change. He doesn’t outright say he denies it, he just keeps saying he’s not sure. But he always has sources that DO deny it. No matter that the sources are shit. It’s like talking to a brick wall.

Of course this guy considers himself a great critical thinker, and people that ‘believe’ in climate change because ‘everyone says so’ are stupid according to him. Although again he doesn’t say they’re stupid, it’s just the air of superiority that makes it obvious.

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u/lonnie123 3d ago

Thats kind of why Dave is so "rude" to him. He knows the answer to that question is "no", he has a contrarian "answer" to every scientific explanation and this guys whole shtick is to JAQ off and make money off gullible people doing so.

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u/ChelseaSJL09 3d ago

Goofy ass fella in the top left staring into my soul

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u/finthir 3d ago edited 3d ago

I'd like to point out that dave is not an actual astronomer. He's a teacher with a degree in chemistry.

Edit: this doen't mean i disagree with him. I just think the title of this post is wrong about that one fact

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u/fupa16 3d ago

I know this is hard for people to watch, but I really recommend you try. Dave absolutely rips the moron to shreds the whole time, with really simple explanations for everything. It's really cathartic if anything.

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u/GucciGuano 3d ago

Barely made it 2 mins in, it was like watching a grown man punch a kid in the face. It would have been a better watch if the guy on the right wasn't so into himself

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